Lifter's Lounge - Printable Version

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Lifter's Lounge - Fortis - 05-17-2018

I'm not sold on the GoMad diet. Look at the athlete that Mark Rippetoe put on that diet. The kid looked like a fat sack of trash after he finished that diet.

Eat more fucking food. If you feel uncomfortable as you gorge on protein, that's a good sign. It means you're hitting your limits.

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Lifter's Lounge - Dulceácido - 05-17-2018

Milk is kinda a weird thing. There are several scientists/dietitians that say human adults should never consume milk. A quick Google search will show you that.

I dunno. I'm a big fan of milk. I love it. But it is weird that humans are the only animals that consume milk as adults, right? I used to eat a small bowl of cereal with milk every night just before bed. I don't do it anymore, but I miss it.

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Lifter's Lounge - Fortis - 05-17-2018

I don't have any problems with milk, personally, beyond my lactose intolerance. I mostly make Kefir and drink that to get in some healthy fat. I think drinking some calories is fine, but you ultimately have to expand your stomach to accommodate more food if you wanna get bigger. There's no way around it.

The reason I don't suggest milk is that all the sugar and stuff bloats some guys. I like using whey isolate and other things. Extra body fat is not gonna do you any favors since it throws off your hip to shoulder ratio as you get bigger. If my hip to shoulder ratio drops below 1.5 at any point, I always make sure to reassess my diet and exercise fork control.

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Lifter's Lounge - Dulceácido - 05-17-2018



I agree completely. The reason I stopped drinking milk is from all the sugar.

I started drinking the above product and it didn't upset my stomach at all. Seems a healthier version.

But, like you said, i prefer a good protein powder nowadays. There's just no reason to drink milk, really, especially if you have a good diet.

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Lifter's Lounge - Bienvenuto - 05-17-2018

Quote: (05-17-2018 01:19 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

No milk for me, I am not exactly lactose intolerant in the way it messes me up, but still milk doesn't like too much my stomach. Anyway, gomad is not really viable option in Europe since milk is not really cheap.

As the Tibetan sage said "the books and practices you don't ever get round to using, give them up"

Alot of ambivalence about GOMAD on the forum which is fair enough.

As other posters have said, its more about taking on calories to your utmost in whichever way works.

Same goes for 20R squats, if it appeals do it as it seems to be a tried and tested hypertrophy formula going back decades. But if a lifter is keener on another program obviously its better to go where the interest is.

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Lifter's Lounge - sterling_archer - 05-17-2018

Btw, I am drinking whey + 3 dcl of milk as an supplement to my nutrition. 3 dcl of milk doesn't bloat me, it adds a bit of protein and combined with vanilla whey tastes awesome (I use My Protein brand).

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Lifter's Lounge - randomA - 05-17-2018

GOMAD is ideal pretty much for only a few specific populations. Not really ideal for the average joes who arent underweight + arent novices anymore.

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Lifter's Lounge - redonion - 05-17-2018

Back in college I picked up a copy of Starting Strength which began my workout life. It was the first lifting book I had ever read and I basically became a Rippetoe disciple and I did the GOMAD diet.

My friends told me I was retarded for drinking so much milk, but I just ignored them, assuring myself that Rippetoe knows more than them.

My strength went up, but I also got really fat (+30 lbs) and fucked up my bowels.

I wouldn't recommend the GOMAD diet at all. Novices don't need it to gain strength and a well balanced diet high in protein and fats will do a better job.

I actually disagree with Rippetoe on many topics nowadays. I still think that Starting Strength is a good book for novices, but I wouldn't listen to him past the novice stage. His diet advice is not good for the majority of people. He only cares about strength, and absolutely nothing else. But is it really worth it to add 50 pounds to your squat when you add 25 pounds to your belly at the same time?

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Lifter's Lounge - renotime - 05-17-2018

Instead of the GOMAD diet why not try 12 eggs a day?

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Lifter's Lounge - Bushido - 05-17-2018

Even Rippetoe has said GOMAD isn't for everyone. People seem to misunderstand him.

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Lifter's Lounge - Mikestar - 05-17-2018

Had an amazing lifting sesh. This dench ghanian dude became my lifting buddy, we killed bench press and T bar rows. Even did a push up challenge with his uncle in Ghana through facetime, this guy is hilarious but addicted to snapchatting everything at the gym. I usually work out alone but it helps if you have a guy to hype you up.

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Lifter's Lounge - randomA - 05-17-2018

Quote: (05-17-2018 11:19 AM)redonion Wrote:  

I actually disagree with Rippetoe on many topics nowadays. I still think that Starting Strength is a good book for novices, but I wouldn't listen to him past the novice stage. His diet advice is not good for the majority of people. He only cares about strength, and absolutely nothing else. But is it really worth it to add 50 pounds to your squat when you add 25 pounds to your belly at the same time?

So much this!
The Blue Book is great tho, for learning the main exercises. Like that 200+ pages on the squat chapter is so rich of any possible information that needs several reads before absorbing all of it and reaching real enlightenment on the squat.
The first time I was done reading it I was like "wait, what?".

Quote:Quote:

I wouldn't recommend the GOMAD diet at all. Novices don't need it to gain strength and a well balanced diet high in protein and fats will do a better job.

yes and no. dont necessarily use yourself as an example: try imagining that there is PLENTY of kids out there nowadays who are seriously underweight and so skinny that are barely able to hold a 20kg barbell by themselves.
Rip's fault was to making generic statements in SS3rd that were easily misinterpreted. He should have included the "Clarification" in the latest version of the book, https://startingstrength.com/articles/cl...ppetoe.pdf , to rectify a bit.

Anyway, people have figured that there is no point going over a 40" waist so if you're doing GOMAD and reach that, you should stop it immediately, then by keeping on training hard with proper programs the waist will go down on its own in due course.

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Lifter's Lounge - Fortis - 05-17-2018

Bushido is correct.

The target audience for SS was originally High schoolers looking to bulk up for sports, IIRC.

I think SS is a great book, don't get me wrong. It made lifting intuitive, easy and workable for me. Nothing scares a newbie more than seeing an Arnold workout with 7 exercises with 5x10 for each.

Til this day, I recommend SS to newbies who are looking to learn the fundamentals or even people who just don't understand the mechanics of the big lifts.

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Lifter's Lounge - sterling_archer - 05-20-2018

In the Forum "Lounge" somebody started talking about intermittent fasting. I want to transfer the conversation between Fortis and me to this thread since it is more suitable. First, I wrote the following:

Quote: (05-20-2018 02:11 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Only thing I have currently against IF is the fact that I am a bit unsure if is a smart idea for me right now. I am doing SS and eating whole day (avoiding really early and late meals though) and I can definitely feel if my workout is harder or easier depending of how my nutrition was previous day. Basically SS requires bulking and eating throughout the day has been a way for me to intake necessary caloric/macro goals. Just can't fit them into the for example 6 hour window that begins at lets say at noon. Also I am lifting fasted in the morning around 9 o'clock so it is hard to wait at least 3 hours for the first meal.

Questions for those who do IF:
1. Do you intake same amount of calories and macros like before when you ate throughout the day, starting with morning breakfast?
2. At what time do you train, i.e. is it fasted in the morning or during your IF window?
3. Do you cut or bulk in your IF routine?

On which Fortis answered:

Quote: (05-20-2018 02:18 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

What is your goal? You are a naturally smaller guy, so i doubt you can eat a caloric surplus within an 8 hour feeding window, if you're bulking.
Before subscribing to any diet you first need to ask this to yourself:

'what am i trying to achieve and how quickly do i want to get there?'

To which I replied:

Quote: (05-20-2018 04:16 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Exactly. That is why I simply cannot do IF right now. My goal, as stated on my thread is to get foundation in strength and lifting technique (of course gaining some muscle along the way) so I can later switch to more intermediate hypertrophy based routine. From what I read, SS is a good getaway for various intermediate routines, either powerlifting or bodybuilding ones.
How quickly? Steady and good progress is probably more important to me than sudden jumps up/down in weight. I am aware that muscle cannot be packed as fast as you can lose fat so I am not rushing anywhere. That being said, I wouldn't mind getting muscle fast, but it is probably not really achievable in my case.

..................................................

I am willing to try IF bulking according to Berkhan's leangains. I was already familiar with IF and Berkhan before and I did IF last year for several months. I definitely could manage it, except in that case I didn't do weightlifting program. My workout routine at that time were bodyweight exercises with which I wanted to preserve strength while my primary goal was fat loss. It was successful.

I am bit worried if I will manage to have linear progression as I have it currently on the SS if I follow this. Are my fears grounded in reality or not?

Will IF bulking nutrition routine help me burn fat and at the same time build muscle like the website claims? Also, is feeding window starting at noon important or you can shift it to 10 in the morning and finish at 6 in the afternoon?

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Lifter's Lounge - randomA - 05-20-2018

It seems to me the only point of IF is to enhance *compliance* with regards to whichever diet regime you might be on at a given time.
Other than that, I cannot find any scientific evidence that can be more/less advantageous.

As long as you hit your weekly calories/macros requirements you won't have problems with SS or other programs. When SS eventually stalls it's because it will have reached its unavoidable expiration date (12-16 weeks for most people), not much because you need to eat necessarily more.

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Lifter's Lounge - flanders - 05-21-2018

Quote: (05-17-2018 07:45 PM)Bushido Wrote:  

Even Rippetoe has said GOMAD isn't for everyone. People seem to misunderstand him.

I'd need to see a link that answers who is exempt from GOMAD (that's not a copout like "the elderly" or "people who live more than a five minute walk from a bathroom"), because otherwise that's a weirdly generous comment to make about somebody whose response to every program questions is "DTFP", where "the program" is half diet advice, on a 'lifting' board where people who report injuries are told they're not eating enough.

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Lifter's Lounge - sterling_archer - 05-21-2018

I decided I will eat as much as I did now, but will fit my feeding phase in the 6 hour window that will start at 10 o'clock in the morning. So classic 16/8 IF. Until now I started eating whenever (sometimes around half past 8) and finished at 8 afternoon.

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Lifter's Lounge - randomA - 05-21-2018

Quote: (05-21-2018 12:34 AM)flanders Wrote:  

I'd need to see a link that answers who is exempt from GOMAD (that's not a copout like "the elderly" or "people who live more than a five minute walk from a bathroom"), because otherwise that's a weirdly generous comment to make about somebody whose response to every program questions is "DTFP", where "the program" is half diet advice, on a 'lifting' board where people who report injuries are told they're not eating enough.

literally posted that link few posts above: thread-38933...pid1785493
check out the Clarification.

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Lifter's Lounge - flanders - 05-21-2018

Quote: (05-21-2018 01:57 AM)randomA Wrote:  

Quote: (05-21-2018 12:34 AM)flanders Wrote:  

I'd need to see a link that answers who is exempt from GOMAD (that's not a copout like "the elderly" or "people who live more than a five minute walk from a bathroom"), because otherwise that's a weirdly generous comment to make about somebody whose response to every program questions is "DTFP", where "the program" is half diet advice, on a 'lifting' board where people who report injuries are told they're not eating enough.

literally posted that link few posts above: thread-38933...pid1785493
check out the Clarification.

Well I guess it's worth noting to not be quick to judge a guy for his forum.

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Lifter's Lounge - Hannibal - 05-21-2018

Quote: (05-21-2018 01:26 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

I decided I will eat as much as I did now, but will fit my feeding phase in the 6 hour window that will start at 10 o'clock in the morning. So classic 16/8 IF. Until now I started eating whenever (sometimes around half past 8) and finished at 8 afternoon.

One of my buddies spent a year getting fucking wrecked in the gym, hitting every exercise he could think of as hard as he could. Machines, dumbbells, barbells, pushups, it didn't matter to him. He ate 3000-4000 calories a day and much of those calories were Skittles and Mcdonalds. He put on fifty pounds in a year (30 of it was muscle) and then did biking and some weird P90x shit with a sandbag to get lean. Now he maintains with a shitty brosplit at a Snap Fitness.

My larger point here is this, forget about lean bulking. You started Starting Strength a month ago. The path to lean bulking as a noobie is the path to waking up one morning and realizing that you only put fifteen pounds on your bench all year and you still haven't deadlifted 3 plates yet.

Put on some size first and then worry about your abs.

Most folks never make it to the next level, you might as well hammer it now while you make the fastest gains of your life and then do your atkins/paleo/IF/RFL/warrior diet/whatever.

Cutting down is not complicated, you literally just lift weights, keep protein high, and eat less.

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Lifter's Lounge - Fortis - 05-21-2018

Thank you, Hannibal. Focus on 1 thing. Stop letting fad diets make you feel like you're missing out. Focus on mass right now as a newbie. Eat, eat, eat, eat and sleep and train. Take advantage of this newbie phase and build a respectable base. You can do IF after if you really want to, but I feel like you're shortchanging yourself by not just sticking to a basic bulking meal plan, training hard and sleeping, Sterling.

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Lifter's Lounge - sterling_archer - 05-21-2018

Tnx guys, will do as you say.

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Lifter's Lounge - Fortis - 05-21-2018

Right on, Sterling!

I just want to be clear, though. I'm not against IF, I just think it doesn't seem to fit with your overarching goal: getting bigger as a newbie.

If you were like 200 pounds and wanted to add some details while shredding down and taking it easy, I'd be all for IF. I'm a big fan of it as an overall lifestyle and diet choice, I just don't think it's quite right for a new guy who needs to focus on building his base.

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Lifter's Lounge - General Stalin - 05-21-2018

On dieting - my thoughts and personal experience echo others about being a beginner:

Worrying about minutiae and tricked out diet plans and fasting and this and that is silly if you are just starting out. My honest opinion is you would be hindering yourself if you were eating like a bird and enforcing consumption windows and this and that. Just eat, lift, eat some more, and sleep.

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Lifter's Lounge - H1N1 - 05-21-2018

How you moderate your diet will depend on your goals. Honestly I think a lot of people chase big numbers on weights and mislead themselves as to how much weight (fat) they have put on in the process - and indeed how much of their performance is dependent on the improved leverages the extra fat gives them, and the energy that comes from being in a constant calorie surplus.

Adding fat with muscle can be a perfectly reasonable thing to do if you have competitive goals.

If you are just an ordinary dude, with ordinary genes, looking to add a bit of muscle and improve your general health and appearance, then I would personally counsel against adding fat unnecessarily. There's no particular rush with training if you've no competition deadline impending. Consistent training, over many years, plenty of animal and vegetable fats, adequate protein, and lots of fresh vegetables, and a good sleeping and sunbathing regime is what is required. The more aggressive approach to eating and training is fine for people who want to make the gym a very significant part of their lifestyle, but if that is not you then a lot of the advice one finds on fitness sites that gets repeated around the web can be inappropriate. You can absolutely build a fit, strong, muscular, lean and capable physique over time on a moderate diet.

People say you can just bulk up quickly, add muscle and fat, then strip the fat later on. However, this advice is usually offered to people who don't actually know much about diet and training in the first place, so cutting fat effectively actually becomes a much harder process than beginners might otherwise believe.

My personal advice to someone with no competitive goals, and no intention of juicing, would be to maintain a reasonably lean physique, mainly by exercising for an hour each day, pushing yourself on a few major exercises, sleeping regularly, and eating meat, fats and vegetables (and carbs if you like) at least 3 times each day, whilst avoiding refined sugar and booze where possible. Over time this will help you avoid injury, optimise your health, and develop a fit and strong physique.

If your goals are more extreme then you can obviously disregard all of this.

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