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The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - sterling_archer - 07-26-2017

@roberto and @Suits

So you mean in my case a website that will sell custom made selfbows, each being one of a kind? They really are, as there are no two same bows from same wood. That would be interesting as competition will come in the shape of fiberglass bows which are made by machines.
I think I should somehow make breakthrough in Croatia before going abroad. Going around bow enthusiasts and archers, showing my work, ensuring that its good and safe. Basically creating a market as there isn't one already. That would be unique as I saw maybe once or twice a ad for a custom bow.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - tomzestatlu - 07-26-2017

Quote: (07-26-2017 01:21 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

@roberto and @Suits

So you mean in my case a website that will sell custom made selfbows, each being one of a kind? They really are, as there are no two same bows from same wood. That would be interesting as competition will come in the shape of fiberglass bows which are made by machines.
I think I should somehow make breakthrough in Croatia before going abroad. Going around bow enthusiasts and archers, showing my work, ensuring that its good and safe. Basically creating a market as there isn't one already. That would be unique as I saw maybe once or twice a ad for a custom bow.

First thing that came on my mind when I´ve seen your question and your nickname was bow. It can be at least good side gig if not something much bigger.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - Suits - 07-26-2017

Quote: (07-26-2017 01:21 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

@roberto and @Suits

So you mean in my case a website that will sell custom made selfbows, each being one of a kind? They really are, as there are no two same bows from same wood. That would be interesting as competition will come in the shape of fiberglass bows which are made by machines.
I think I should somehow make breakthrough in Croatia before going abroad. Going around bow enthusiasts and archers, showing my work, ensuring that its good and safe. Basically creating a market as there isn't one already. That would be unique as I saw maybe once or twice a ad for a custom bow.

No, you should investigate products for which there is demonstratable demand, that you can use your existing skills (in combination with new skills that you may need to learn) to create.

You're already aware that the demand isn't their for handmade bows, so you need to find a different product(s).

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - lavidaloca - 07-26-2017

Quote: (07-26-2017 12:24 PM)kavi Wrote:  

https://indusfurniture.co.uk/all/

The stuff actually looks nice. But you need to target people with Century Homes I would think. The type of people buying that kind of stuff aren't average people. Century homes cost a lot to maintain. The sofas also kind of remind of stuff you'd see at churches, funeral homes, retirement homes etc.

That stuff would look out of place in a new build home. (Any of which wasn't designed to look like an old home)

The other issue is it all looks very uncomfortable. (Maybe I'm wrong on this) but on all those sofas it looks like there's hardly any padding so it reminds more of antique type furniture.

Would it potentially make mores sense to instead try to sell your products to a re-seller?

I mean a furniture store with a reputation would be able to move products a lot faster even if your margins are substantially reduced you could offset that by more sales.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - PapayaTapper - 07-26-2017

Quote: (07-26-2017 03:25 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Would it potentially make mores sense to instead try to sell your products to a re-seller?

I mean a furniture store with a reputation would be able to move products a lot faster even if your margins are substantially reduced you could offset that by more sales.

I'd similarly suggest contacting local designers to get their feedback. Try and find ones that incorporate eclectic pieces into their design.

There is a market for this stuff but trying to reach it directly yourself was / is a large challenge. But dont give up. All it takes one right contact and youre in business (pun intended)

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - kavi - 07-26-2017

Thanks for the responses guys

Quote: (07-26-2017 12:29 PM)roberto Wrote:  

^Looks well made and worth the money, but I'd say a very limited market for that particular style.

"Upper-Middle Class Whites not so much due to them being more into contemporary minimalist interiors" Nailed it here I think.

Yeah, that's the sort of the question I need to answer, what is the market really and how is it limited? I think the main issue could be that the type of people who like it cant really afford a £1,200 sofa.

You obviously cant please everyone so I'm not too worried about that segment as long as there are others who dont think like that. The sort of people who may not go for the sofas I think are the type that think all my neighbours have minimalism and I want to fit in. Basically, I got a little bit of this type of feedback during the pop-up event, but it was in Chiswick which has a certain type of feel and demographic.

I think you need to see it in real life. From my marketing, I have not really noticed people in general not being attracted/interested in the stuff. Most working-middle class people react positively to it, I suppose they just like how it looks rather than "how will it fit in".

Quote: (07-26-2017 03:25 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Quote: (07-26-2017 12:24 PM)kavi Wrote:  

https://indusfurniture.co.uk/all/

The stuff actually looks nice. But you need to target people with Century Homes I would think. The type of people buying that kind of stuff aren't average people. Century homes cost a lot to maintain. The sofas also kind of remind of stuff you'd see at churches, funeral homes, retirement homes etc.

That stuff would look out of place in a new build home. (Any of which wasn't designed to look like an old home)

The other issue is it all looks very uncomfortable. (Maybe I'm wrong on this) but on all those sofas it looks like there's hardly any padding so it reminds more of antique type furniture.

Would it potentially make mores sense to instead try to sell your products to a re-seller?

I mean a furniture store with a reputation would be able to move products a lot faster even if your margins are substantially reduced you could offset that by more sales.

I have these sofas at home and they look ok. They are not so deep so take up less space than most others. It's really matter of opinion, cultural influence whether you think it only works in those types of homes. The beds are large obviously, but can be made to smaller sizes. Pretty much everything looks shit in a new-build in England due to the low quality of said builds.

I have received positive feedback on the comfort level of the Sofas from quite a few people. It seems most people like to sit on more upright sofas, even if retailers push the more softer items. I find when I sit on them it is easier to be alert and energized and I can get up more easily. Nobody really want to be semi-lying on a sofa at a 45 degree angle while watching tv for an hour, I think. We used good quality foam on them so that helps.

Going for a reseller seems like too much work for too little benefit. They mostly have their own ranges and would require lots of commitments from me to make it worth their while. There are not that many mid-range independent furniture stores around here. Most are big companies and selling a few units from a new supplier might pose more risks than benefits for them.

Currently I am trying to get my Google Shopping Ads set up so when someone types a related query (Sofas in London for instance) I can get some photos to pop up.

Thing is, most Sofas in the market are pretty boring and they all look pretty much the same. I can close my eyes and picture my products because they are unique and have interesting features. I cant really picture a typical sofa, because they are mostly just a solid rectangle shape with no interesting features.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - kavi - 07-26-2017

Quote: (07-26-2017 04:59 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Quote: (07-26-2017 03:25 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Would it potentially make mores sense to instead try to sell your products to a re-seller?

I mean a furniture store with a reputation would be able to move products a lot faster even if your margins are substantially reduced you could offset that by more sales.

I'd similarly suggest contacting local designers to get their feedback. Try and find ones that incorporate eclectic pieces into their design.

There is a market for this stuff but trying to reach it directly yourself was / is a large challenge. But dont give up. All it takes one right contact and youre in business (pun intended)

Good point. Now I have closed my shop, once I get everything sorted, I will try and reach out to more bloggers, writers, interior mags etc to see if they want something interesting to write about. Also need to get into the main London interiors show but that will be in March, and quite pricey, so hopefully can get money together for that.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - kavi - 07-26-2017

I mean for fuck sake this sort of thing is my competition

https://thumbor-gc.tomandco.uk/unsafe/fi...VTCJNP.jpg

at £2,000

I should be able to kill em..

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - roberto - 07-27-2017

Quote: (07-26-2017 05:54 PM)kavi Wrote:  

I mean for fuck sake this sort of thing is my competition

https://thumbor-gc.tomandco.uk/unsafe/fi...VTCJNP.jpg

at £2,000

I should be able to kill em..

Try upping your prices. It takes as much effort to make a sale for 4k as it does 2k in your kind of market. Yours also appear 'too cheap' for the craftsmanship.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - Suits - 07-27-2017

Quote: (07-27-2017 06:20 AM)roberto Wrote:  

Quote: (07-26-2017 05:54 PM)kavi Wrote:  

I mean for fuck sake this sort of thing is my competition

https://thumbor-gc.tomandco.uk/unsafe/fi...VTCJNP.jpg

at £2,000

I should be able to kill em..

Try upping your prices. It takes as much effort to make a sale for 4k as it does 2k in your kind of market. Yours also appear 'too cheap' for the craftsmanship.

Your photos suck balls. At those prices, you need professional level photos with them in a room arranged to make them look like a million bucks.

Give you operation some status. Have a website that includes articles about finding that perfect addition for the living or that bed that has unbelievable character. Spend $1000 having 20 great articles written and write a few yourself. Go all out.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - kavi - 07-27-2017

Thanks guys, I think both the above are good points (increasing prices and improving website) but my main issue at the moment is traffic. If I could get enough targetted traffic to my site and start talking to potential customers then I would be in a good spot to work on those things, things I know I need to do. At the moment I cant really find time/money to improve the site when I have no source of converting traffic.

Google Shopping is getting on my nerves. I have set everything up in merchant centre and set up adwords for google product linked ads but I am not getting impressions. Have been back and forth with google all week but not getting anywhere.

My problem taking this to market has always been getting good, targetted traffic from people looking to buy, whether in person or online. That's the main issue I'm working on at the moment and hoping google shopping can do something good for me.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - Valentine - 07-27-2017

Quote: (07-27-2017 10:47 AM)kavi Wrote:  

Thanks guys, I think both the above are good points (increasing prices and improving website) but my main issue at the moment is traffic. If I could get enough targetted traffic to my site and start talking to potential customers then I would be in a good spot to work on those things, things I know I need to do. At the moment I cant really find time/money to improve the site when I have no source of converting traffic.

Google Shopping is getting on my nerves. I have set everything up in merchant centre and set up adwords for google product linked ads but I am not getting impressions. Have been back and forth with google all week but not getting anywhere.

My problem taking this to market has always been getting good, targetted traffic from people looking to buy, whether in person or online. That's the main issue I'm working on at the moment and hoping google shopping can do something good for me.

If you're not getting any impressions with AdWords then you're most likely not bidding high enough. I'm not familiar with the Shopping campaign type but you could also modify your product data to better target the audience you're looking for.

Similar issue to me at the moment, looking to further scale traffic.

---

Previous update.

Got most of our DevOps stack set up and it's made migrating development changes much easier. Devs are busy fixing some long-standing issues as well as adding new features.

On the marketing front looking to hire a second AdWords agency to see if they can improve on the performance of the former, searching through reviews to find one that can produce results. Doing the same for social media paid ads and display advertising, aiming to outsource daily operations so I can focus on strategy.

If anyone has recommendations for paid advertising agencies PM me and in the near future will focus more on organic traffic so any good recs for that is appreciated too.

Getting a bit tricky to get an overview of all of the different aspects of our business right now so also looking to get an admin dashboard site setup too. CoreUI looks pretty decent.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - PapayaTapper - 07-28-2017

Let me elaborate on my previous post.

You need to contact interior designers. You are trying to go direct to the consumer (business to consumer aka B2C) without any established brand and no capital. For a niche product with large ticket ( relative to disposable commodity to other consumer products) an extremely difficult proposition at best and impossible at worst.

Your best bet is to go indirect model aka business to business or B2B)

Why? Because they already have what you need:

CUSTOMERS

In your case interior designers are seemingly the most appropriate and reachable vector for your products.

And guess what? Designers like unique products that they can upsell to their clients. That same sofa you sell for $1800 they will sell to their affluent clients for $4000 or more I know this for a fact.

The B2B model is your best chance for success. I'd just spend some time looking at designers online portfolios and see which ones use your type of products in some of their projects.

Moreover interior designers deal with hotels, government offices., libraries, yacht clubs, etc etc etc...markets you've never even thought of let alone ever hope to reach

The best part is that there are tjousands of interior designers that are accesible to you with no cost beyond a phone call or email

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - crdr - 07-28-2017

Quote: (07-27-2017 06:31 AM)Suits Wrote:  

Quote: (07-27-2017 06:20 AM)roberto Wrote:  

Quote: (07-26-2017 05:54 PM)kavi Wrote:  

I mean for fuck sake this sort of thing is my competition

https://thumbor-gc.tomandco.uk/unsafe/fi...VTCJNP.jpg

at £2,000

I should be able to kill em..

Try upping your prices. It takes as much effort to make a sale for 4k as it does 2k in your kind of market. Yours also appear 'too cheap' for the craftsmanship.

Your photos suck balls. At those prices, you need professional level photos with them in a room arranged to make them look like a million bucks.

Give you operation some status. Have a website that includes articles about finding that perfect addition for the living or that bed that has unbelievable character. Spend $1000 having 20 great articles written and write a few yourself. Go all out.

The guys from airbnb.com had the same problem. They thought Craigslist photo quality would seduce the renter... No dice. Both sides of the "platform" suffered. They started bringing independent pro photogs. The game changed. They actually said that was one of their biggest growth drivers. I still think they have one of, if not the best looking sites on the internet today. Design and User Experience is an Underground King right now. Since Steve Jobs died, all the successful companies' secret is solid user experience.

Never chince out on a good designer. They are hard to come by.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - PapayaTapper - 07-28-2017

While they could be better, better photos or an improved site aren't the solution to kavi's challenges. They might help facilitate a few sales but they aren't going to fix his position. His business model is wrong

While better photos might make a strategic difference to Airbnb they won't resolve the disconnect between kavi and consumers.

Most people won't for example buy a pair of jeans online...unless they already know the brand, their size etc. Same thing with many other products. Even if they have an established brand

His products are very special and he'll likely never drive the required traffic to his site to convert enough clicks into sales.

If he wants to go from 0$ sales to something images and a site aren't the answer...yet. Maybe sell a dozen pieces via designers then invest in the site. A couple of industry testimonials and or referrals would be much more effective right now.

His best bet is to position his business as an "artisan wholesaler" and have someone else sell to end users

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - kavi - 07-28-2017

The photos and site quality are issues, but I cant do much about it now. Also bear in mind with only 14 or so products in total no amount of work on the site can make it look like a million dollar operation. People want to browse products and as a new/niche I am only hoping they like something from my small selection.

I mentioned I used fb ads for a while targetting South Asians in London. This sent traffic to my site and the bounce rate was good at around 40-50% and many users were clicking around. The issue I think is that this was not qualified traffic looking to buy, just people who found the ads interesting.

Supplying to the trade is an interesting idea. I did visit a local interior designers shop and they said they liked my products and seemed interested at the time but they never visited my store. I called another one up and she just said she already has supplier contracts and just shut me down before I could pitch.

Most interior designers around here are women doing this as a sort of paid with little understanding of the field.

For now I am still trying to get impressions on Google Shopping (only 25 today). Google shopping was something I wanted to set up from the start but left it due to the amount of work involved as I was pursuing other avenues then. It could be an efficient source of qualified traffic that I could do something with.

My bid is at £2.50 which I think is way too high but just wana see what it does. Google auto bid sets it 1.50 so I wouldnt expect bidding to be an issue. Unlike adwords where you target specific keywords, Google Shopping uses the information you give it (Mainly title and desc) to decide where your ads show up and this is something of a black box.

I will look around the industry a bit more once i get freed up some more and see if I can generate some interest.

Papaya, your analysis of my situation and its problems has been spot on. I'm impressed. Repped

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - Burn - 07-30-2017

Quote: (07-23-2017 03:53 AM)Burn Wrote:  

The coming week i will:
- Finish the site i sent to translation, this is a large goal. Hopefully i get it back soon, so i get a couple of days. This site is more than 50% larger than the previous.
- Get my new translated site 100% done.
- Finish the copy on the site mentioned before.

-First site is almost 100% done, except the logo that wont show for some reason, will fix tomorrow.

-Could not start on the other site, i got the translated document on friday afternoon and was on wedding saturday = very hang over today.

- Still not done with the copy.

Sounds like a bad week work wise and it kind of was, but not terrible at least.

Other than business:
Gym
5 gym sessions done.
Benched 3x5@80kg finally. Also tried putting something on my chest so i didnt need to touch the chest with the bar. Could do 2 reps at 110kg, tried at 120kg also but didnt make it.
Squatted 90kg 4x4x4.
Deadlift 5x 125kg.


Girls
Did some approaches but not all intended. Did get a new notch from daygame, hoping to meet her again. Hopefully i can meet her 1-2 times per week.

The coming week i will:
- Finish the new site
- Finish the copy on the other one i talked about before.

Two days left of the month and it is looking very good. Will update the first of August.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - weambulance - 07-30-2017

Quote:Quote:

-First site is almost 100% done, except the logo that wont show for some reason, will fix tomorrow.

If you mean the favicon on the browser tab, do a hard refresh (usually ctrl-f5) and it should show up if it's correctly linked.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - storm - 07-30-2017

I suspect there is a reason why the only successfully scaled furniture business is Ikea (afaik) and I also suspect that logistics is responsible for this.

I see this as a good small business, and agree with PT that you should hustle in person first. In general I think it is not the best fit for online but I have bought furniture online before and have never visited a furniture store so I think it is just waiting for good execution. Not sure about those price points. Again I would hustle some sales boots on the ground first, it is fine not to do at scale initially. Then I would just pay for the website to be done on a pro level. You will need to do multiple photographs at the bare minimum (a good rule of thumb would be to go to Amazon and see what the best sellers in a similar industry have for their product page).

You'd honestly be better off making a big detailed high quality landing page for one couch/rug and running tests on that before doing a whole store (you can make it appear to be a store if you want).

But I don't see this without serious work (5-10k web budget) selling a single item by internet advertising alone. Probably as is it is good to put on a business card and then invite people to visit in person. And you have a big risk that even after 5-10k it will not sell anything. Notice that right now you are getting zero interest, a thousand fb impressions should have given you something, at least an add to cart.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - Suits - 07-30-2017

Quote: (07-28-2017 09:16 PM)kavi Wrote:  

The photos and site quality are issues, but I cant do much about it now.

Sure you can. You could start looking for options for a more visually appealing website right now.

You could start studying staging and looking for a professional photographer in your area right now.

You could start writing an article about furniture selection right now.

You could start looking for writers who are experts in SEO keywords to write traffic building articles right now.

There's plenty you can do about it right now.

Quote: (07-28-2017 09:16 PM)kavi Wrote:  

Also bear in mind with only 14 or so products in total no amount of work on the site can make it look like a million dollar operation.

Not true. You could:
Quote: (07-28-2017 09:16 PM)kavi Wrote:  

People want to browse products and as a new/niche I am only hoping they like something from my small selection.

Then you need likeable photos.

Quote: (07-28-2017 09:16 PM)kavi Wrote:  

I mentioned I used fb ads for a while targetting South Asians in London. This sent traffic to my site and the bounce rate was good at around 40-50% and many users were clicking around. The issue I think is that this was not qualified traffic looking to buy, just people who found the ads interesting.

It's possible that these people were looking to buy but were turned off by your amateur looking website.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - storm - 07-30-2017

Quote: (07-26-2017 02:41 PM)Suits Wrote:  

No, you should investigate products for which there is demonstratable demand, that you can use your existing skills (in combination with new skills that you may need to learn) to create.

Has this process ever been formalized?

It's a crackpot idea I know but humor me: I want to automate the process.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - Suits - 07-30-2017

Quote: (07-30-2017 09:44 PM)storm Wrote:  

Quote: (07-26-2017 02:41 PM)Suits Wrote:  

No, you should investigate products for which there is demonstratable demand, that you can use your existing skills (in combination with new skills that you may need to learn) to create.

Has this process ever been formalized?

It's a crackpot idea I know but humor me: I want to automate the process.

No, the process of investigating potential markets, and then creating and testing potential products for those markets cannot be automated.

There are no shortcuts here.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - Valentine - 07-30-2017

Quote: (07-30-2017 11:16 PM)Suits Wrote:  

Quote: (07-30-2017 09:44 PM)storm Wrote:  

Quote: (07-26-2017 02:41 PM)Suits Wrote:  

No, you should investigate products for which there is demonstratable demand, that you can use your existing skills (in combination with new skills that you may need to learn) to create.

Has this process ever been formalized?

It's a crackpot idea I know but humor me: I want to automate the process.

No, the process of investigating potential markets, and then creating and testing potential products for those markets cannot be automated.

There are no shortcuts here.

You can definitely hire people to do parts of your market validation process if you define certain things to look for, but a comprehensive and truly accurate process for this will likely take a lifetime to create as it's one of the key steps in entrepreneurship.

I'd advise starting by compiling a bunch of different books and blogs approaches on the subject into one document and refine from there. The 4 Hour Workweek book has one such quick method in there based on AdWords.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - storm - 07-31-2017

It is already automated for certain niches: for example, one east coast company has a small army scanning amazon reviews of small items for "i wish this just had..." or similar and then makes that item. They are doing well. Recently I spoke with an ebook publisher, who pointed out that his competitor searches for underperforming books (again using a team of people clicking on amazon links) and releases clones with better marketing, more appropriate content, etc.

No reason either of those couldn't be done automatically and at scale. It just is more expensive to hire a six figure NLP developer than to hire someone to click on links, "making money from home" and follow some basic tutorial. But for the right industry and with the right volume I can see the process being fully automated ( or at least with very high levels of automation ).

Remember people said the same about stock trading and now 99.99% of trades are done algorithmically.

Of course amazon does not allow API level access to their reviews at any price so you are in trouble from first principles. But we don't know that this will always be the case and it is an interesting thought experiment, especially to think about outside of the amazon ecosystem.

The Entrepreneur / Business Owner's / Self Employed Lounge - worldwidetraveler - 07-31-2017

It seems like a lot of people overthink what they should sell.

I tend to start with products that I find I need myself. Current product selections may not quite do what I need. If they did, I would have just purchased their product and be done with it.

Then it comes down to figuring out if the market is big enough and people are actually buying stuff.

I'd say all of us are consumers in big markets with a ton of money being thrown around. People need to step out of the consumer roles to start seeing all the opportunities around us.

My advice is to pick a big market that buys a lot of stuff and serve that market. You won't run out of ideas for stuff to sell them. They end up telling you exactly what they want. It isn't difficult if you interact with people and listen.

I have more product ideas than time.